16 – Loving the Low: Finding Beauty in Every Mood

0:03Lea WernliHello and welcome. It's time for you again. I am with my friend and colleague Shelia Stevens.

0:11Shailia StephensHi guys.

0:12Lea WernliAnd I'm Lea Wernli in Zurich. We are in Germany and Switzerland, and, um, as some people around the world know, that's not my first language, so Be kind and I talk slow sometimes and I invent words.

0:35Shailia StephensYes, you do. You invent a lot of nice words.

0:37Lea WernliYes, I know. So have fun and maybe there is something in it for you. We hope so. So today, what is it? We had a conversation just before this one. We do 2 or 3 podcasts some days. And I was in a low mood. I was in a bad mood. And I knew it. And I kind of wanted to be in a bad mood. I'm very, very seldom in a really bad mood or in a low mood for a long time. But I do not not like it. Sometimes it's just, oh, That's, uh, that's the feeling of low mood. Yeah. So this slight melancholy sometimes, or—

1:37Shailia StephensPissy.

1:38Lea WernliSelf-pity.

1:39Shailia StephensNo, I said pissy.

1:41Lea WernliPissy.

1:42Shailia StephensYou know that pissy mood? Have you heard that word before?

1:46Lea WernliYeah. And we just, um, wanted to talk about that, that, um, we are always going through different moods throughout the day, and often we don't take it that serious. And sometimes we are getting in a habit of taking it really serious. And then we are, um, then it's getting difficult because then we think that could be our personality or the circumstances or, uh, the spouse or kids or whatever else outside of us.

2:36Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

2:36Lea WernliAnd it's not. And we, in this conversation, we, it's always a conversation that has some paradoxical aspects somehow. And I mean, isn't that cool that we can be with things that are not that clear and And not solvable. Yeah, but to speak about it and to just be aware of parts that sometimes are unconscious helps somehow. That's really interesting.

3:31Shailia StephensYeah.

3:31Lea WernliYeah. And what I wanted to say is, yeah, I wanted to be in a bad mood and then it was really easy to come out of it. And that's something that our head often has a judgment around or needs a change or really wants to be right. And then I can feel different or better. But actually, we are able to just switch out of it.

4:12Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

4:13Lea WernliAnd probably that's an invitation to, yeah, to explore that for yourself. Is it real? Do I have to stay in it? Do I need a change in the outside or? Am I able to just feel different because I want to? Yeah. Yeah. That's what came to me.

4:41Shailia StephensThat's what came to you. I had a bad mood yesterday and, um, I, I think I told you, Leah, I was really sick yesterday and I got some sort of like stomach virus on, on, uh, Saturday. Like I was literally throwing up after everything that I ate. And then Sunday came around and I was just like feeling terrible.

5:01Lea WernliMy husband was skiing.

5:01Shailia StephensI was alone with the dogs. Like, I had to just like pull myself off the couch and go walking anyway. And, um, I just tell a couple of stories because we just chatting here anyway, always. So it was— I was dragging myself up a hill just like with no energy, and I was just like enjoying the pure patheticness of it all. Like, I can't even make it up a third of the hill, you know? And then I decided to turn around with the dogs, and I, I came onto the back way.

5:36There was this poor lady. She was with a little white fuzzy dog on the leash, and somebody had let her out of a car. And I was trying to give her some space because I had 2 big dogs, she had a tiny dog, and sometimes little dogs are afraid of big dogs or vice versa. And from a distance, she starts reprimanding me like, put your 2 dogs on the leash, not just one, both of them. She just wouldn't stop, you know, annoying me, in my, in my opinion. And at some point, I just was like, all right, what are you gonna do?

6:13And I'm like, well, I'm in a very bad mood. So I just said, I thought I would just let her know. So I literally said to her, please calm down. I'm in a very bad mood. And I don't want to, um, offend you or yell at you. And if you continue, I will. And I said it really pissy to her.

6:32Lea WernliAnd then?

6:36Shailia StephensWell, then she got really quiet and she took her dog off to the side and just let me pass by. And I thought, well, that was kind of a good solution that I came up with because it was really honest, you know?

6:52Lea WernliHmm.

6:52Shailia StephensBecause it was true. I was in a bad mood. I, I couldn't foresee myself getting out of it within the next 2 minutes of confronting her. I I wasn't up for faking a smile, um, or being nice. And I just was honest, you know, I said, I'm in a bad mood. And if you don't shut up, I'm gonna yell at you. I don't want to do that, more or less. And, um, so I walked past her. So there was no confrontation.

7:19Lea WernliMm-hmm.

7:20Shailia StephensAnd the bad mood kind of just continued throughout the day. And it was so funny because I, I could so relate to you saying like, and I just wanted to be in it. Like, I was, I was texting with someone who was close to me. And you know how it is when we're in a bad mood, a low mood, like whatever you want to call it, like we start to get kind of thinking that's off, right? And, uh, I started getting this thinking that was off about this person. Thank goodness we're close to each other, like, and we know this understanding and we were able to just be openly about it.

7:56And so I prefaced it with like, I'm in a, I'm in a low mood, or I know I'm not feeling well. But this, this, this, and that. And the other, the other person who's in a better mood, they were thinking— they, he, they told me later, he's like, I was thinking, hey, don't come at me with this today. Like, I, I really can't deal with it. And I remember just sort of like enjoying writing these bad things, knowing that none of it was true. And I just was thinking, well, later, I'm sure I'll be feeling better.

8:29And, you know, I'll, you know, it'll all be forgotten kind of a thing. And I thought, how wonderful is that to know really what that is, and to be conscious and aware of where we are right now, the bullshit we're saying or doing intentionally.

8:49Lea WernliYes.

8:52Shailia StephensAnd knowing that that doesn't mean anything about us. It doesn't mean anything about the other person. It doesn't mean anything about how long the mood is going to stay around. It's just like this space we're in at the moment. Yes. And feeling— not even feeling hopeful, but just knowing for sure, like, but just as sure as the sun is going to come up tomorrow, there's going to be a really soon time in the future where, like, this is not going to be where I'm at. And sure enough, in the evening, Um, you know, had a conversation on the telephone with that person and I was in a super fine mood and we were laughing and joking about my asshole comments from earlier in the day.

9:34Lea WernliTotally. And somehow there is something in it like getting over yourself as well.

9:41Shailia StephensYeah.

9:42Lea WernliI mean, with my client and often as well for myself, I just know if I do or say something in Bad mood. Oh, my cat is throwing up.

9:55Shailia StephensJamie!

10:00Lea WernliOh, Jamie. Oh no.

10:02Shailia StephensDo you need to pause?

10:03Lea WernliI think he already walks away. It's just for me, probably. So, okay, fine. If not, I'll tell you.

10:14Shailia StephensOkay, let me know.

10:16Lea WernliI mean, often we get into deeper shit if we say or text or do something in the bad mood, in the storm, in the activated feelings.

10:31Shailia StephensYeah.

10:32Lea WernliAnd that's true. And probably for the bigger things, yeah, it's better to close your mouth, to sit on your hands, to not write the email, to not yell, to not whatever. And it's totally human to do it anyway, somehow. And there is kind of a kink and something in it, in the smaller stuff, to sometimes do it and to get off. And to be aware with the bigger things. It's just not worth it.

11:17Shailia StephensNo.

11:17Lea WernliI mean, look at the state of the world. That's all because of thinking in low moods and believing whatever we think. So, but to just see, yes, there, there is also a playfulness and the part of a relationship and the part of an interaction that has enough strength in it.

11:49Shailia StephensYeah.

11:49Lea WernliTo, to also just be in this low mood. I can be in a low mood with you and we don't take it that serious.

12:02Shailia StephensYeah.

12:02Lea WernliIn a way.

12:04Shailia StephensYeah.

12:05Lea WernliI mean, we never insult each other or, I mean, That's not that kind of a relationship, but we can be a bit bitchy and whatever, but it's not insulting like in a deeper way. Yeah. It's just being okay with the other one being in a bad mood.

12:31Shailia StephensYeah, and I think there's something in there. When you're talking, it's just coming to me. I used to be in this one relationship, like a male-female love relationship, and it wasn't— it was sometimes like not good at all. Leah's looking at the cat throw up. Don't look at that. Don't look at that. Look at it later. Um, there was something very dramatic and blowing, blowing up in this. This was after I came to the 3 principles, and there was something good for me in it.

13:03And so I'm gonna try to put words to it. We also have this sort of conditioning. It's a lot in the US, less so than in Germany, where people are told to always say what you think immediately when you think it, no matter what it is, right?

13:17Lea WernliYeah.

13:17Shailia StephensThey're like super direct about everything. And, and I was raised more with this like, um, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all, which is in general kind of a, kind of a nice you know, way to go. It's, it does point to maybe not saying something when you're in a low mood, but there's, there's something constricting too about always, no matter how you're feeling, no matter what mood you're in, always being nice, always being, I'm going to say fake.

13:49Um, and I would get to a point, especially when you're, when you're coaching, you know, we're always holding the space for others. We're always listening. We're always being compassionate, you know, and at some point, I just kind of got to this space where it felt good to be in this dramatic blowup with some other person because I could just be and feel and explode and release. I don't have to do that anymore because I— back then, I think I used to be in that sort of space, especially now that I know the 3 principles.

14:22I need to be conscious and kind and compassionate at all times with everybody in every moment. No, I'm human and I get in a low mood. I sometimes like to be in a low mood. I like to sometimes just have a little tiny drama with someone over, over text. And, and because I allow myself those moments, it doesn't build up so much, me always trying to hold everything in like a dam. So that's what I'm feeling when you're talking. What do you hear in that, Leah?

14:54Lea WernliYeah, I like that. And also, I think, as always, we learn and experience what we need to learn and experience. Yeah. I was a big, huge blow-upper. I could do really good dramas and talking everything through till to the bottom and whatever. And I really, really, really learned to not say anything when you're not having something nice to say. And it was very good to learn and needed and, and the right thing. So it's also, it's so interesting. I just had a conversation with a friend of mine.

15:45She— it's a bit off topic, but she always wanted to be in a relationship with a house and 2 kids and a husband. And, and now she's a single mom and has different, um, friends and, and a very nice supportive group of friends and no, um, long-term relationship. So the total opposite of what she thought would be her way. And for myself, I never thought that I'm having kids and a husband and a house. I was certain to be alone and write in an Arctic little room in Paris. That's too romantic, but it was really— I was kind of deeply okay and fine with—

16:46Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

16:48Lea WernliThat direction, and life gave me something totally different.

16:54Shailia StephensComplete opposite.

16:55Lea WernliComplete opposite. I'm in a house with 2 kids and a loving husband. I love all of it, but I'm more than that. Of course, we all are always more than just the form, but there was and is a lot to learn. in what I'm experiencing for myself. So, um, I think that's very interesting, and it, it doesn't look like how it should look often.

17:29Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

17:31Lea WernliAnd so for people who do not like to say what they really mean, it It's a huge challenge. And being okay with, oh, I'm able to say what I really mean. And sometimes then the pendulum goes a little too far off one side.

17:54Shailia StephensYeah.

17:55Lea WernliI was very harmonious and really, um, into this extremely balanced Um, relationship for quite a long time, and now it loosens up again. So it's— there are circles and seasons and, and learning curves and, and really kind of, uh, individual things and themes and universal things and themes.

18:30Shailia StephensYeah, yeah.

18:32Lea WernliReally interesting.

18:33Shailia StephensIt is interesting. I had a conversation with some clients about that the other day. It's like, you know, there are these personal insights that we're getting and they're always changing because you're always getting insight in the moment and you could be, you know, getting blue one moment and 3 weeks later you're getting an insight that's red.

18:57Lea WernliYou know, sometimes confusing at the beginning for people.

19:02Shailia StephensYeah. Yeah, it is. Because we've kind of learned in our societies, like, you get an aha moment and that sticks for the rest of your life. That's not true. Wisdom is individual, personal, in the moment for your life right now, and it can change in the next moment. And then there's the universal, which is, you know, the thing that's true for everyone. Um, you know, when we are in a lower mood, we can't trust the quality of our thinking at the moment. That's true for every single person.

19:32Lea WernliYeah.

19:33Shailia StephensAnd I think that's what helps really in this conversation and this understanding is kind of knowing the difference. It's like, because I understand now, finally, you know, moods go up and down all day long. And sometimes I don't know that I'm in the mood. And sometimes I see it and, and it's just thought and I know it's passing. Like, I just— that universal understanding. That's what's true for all humans.

20:00Lea WernliYes.

20:01Shailia Stephensreally helps me as a human being in my personal life. And, um, yeah, it gives you more flexibility, less, uh, less, yeah, less rigidity around how you act or be. Yeah.

20:16Lea WernliAnd, and probably, I mean, that's one of my favorite things to see somehow. Um, it also helps to know that we're just able to have insights All day long.

20:30Shailia StephensYeah.

20:31Lea WernliAnd it's not the personal insights that we really need to cherish. I mean, they're cool, they're nice, they're fun. It's a very cool tool. Um, but to know that we, we are able to have insights, um, 24/7, that's, that's the amazing thing. And to— yeah, this shift as well, like—

20:57Shailia StephensYeah.

20:58Lea WernliThat's the universal part of the inside part. Mm-hmm.

21:04Shailia StephensAlways available. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Leah, I so get it. And it's so funny, Leah, because, you know, for those of you who are new to, to the podcast or haven't—

21:16Lea Wernlidon't know Leah and myself, probably they think, what the heck are they talking about?

21:21Shailia StephensNo, it's okay. Just listen for the feeling. You know, that's the 3P way to say it. Don't care what we say. Listen for the feeling. You know what I was gonna say? Like, Lea and I know each other so well, and it's so funny, Lea, when you're in a low mood, I can just like smell it from thousands of kilometers away. And it's so funny. It's so funny. And I, I noticed today too, like, I was just like—

21:46Lea WernliI always get serious.

21:48Shailia StephensYou're very serious. Super serious.

21:50Lea WernliEverything. Yeah.

21:53Shailia StephensYeah, you get really serious. And I, you know, I really want to be compassionate for that and just like hold the space without taking it too seriously in the moment. But yeah, it's good when we come back too.

22:07Lea WernliYes.

22:07Shailia StephensIt's good when we come back and when our mood lifts, and it always does, and we're back in that sort of fun and more joyful place. And we start laughing more and joking around.

22:23Lea WernliThat's true.

22:24Shailia StephensReally good.

22:25Lea WernliBill Petit says always, do you remember that when I don't sing or whistle?

22:33Shailia StephensWhen I'm not whistling.

22:34Lea WernliI'm just saying, I sing, he whistles, then I know something is off. So yeah. And to just feel it for yourself, what is it? Yeah, and, and as you said, that's so cool. Sometimes it's just so nice having a friend around, and, and you did hold space. I'm really grateful for that. I love that. And we also can be our friend, like, always. So we always have a friend around, and that's somehow cool too.

23:11Shailia StephensYeah, absolutely. Oh, so good, Leah. Thanks for bringing the topic today. When I see the lady with her dog, I'm gonna try to be nice to her the next time, even though I still don't find her very supportive.

23:23Lea WernliI know. And maybe we could talk about that next time because I've got quite a few clients, and I know we do not that coachy thing, but yeah, I mean, we are—

23:32Shailia Stephenswe can, we can talk about whatever we want to. It's our podcast.

23:36Lea WernliThat you don't have to put up with every behavior. That's a completely different topic. Yeah, I would love to talk about that one day.

23:46Shailia StephensAll right, we will. We need to have some place to collect it somewhere. We'll see what we do there with that. Thanks for listening in today. Leah, do you want to take us out, or—

23:54Lea WernliNo.

23:56Shailia StephensIt's always so fun for me. Okay, I'll do it. I always like to test Leah if she remembers what to say. So thanks for joining us today and taking some time for yourself to nurture love and presence and well-being. And if you enjoyed today's conversation, follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and recommend it to a friend. We love, love, love if you get some value out of this, if you're seeing something for yourself, that you share the love with someone else.

24:26It's the way that we can help more people in this transformative conversation to have a lighter experience of life, to have a more wonderful life, and we love when that happens. So thanks for sharing, and we'll see you the next time on Time for You. Until then, bye-bye.

24:44Lea WernliBye. Thank you.