45 – How to Stop Losing Control: What Anger Is Really Telling You

0:02Shailia StephensHello, hello, hello, and welcome back to Time for You. My name is Shaleia Stephens, and I'm with my beautiful friend and colleague, Leah Van Lee.

0:09Lea WernliHi guys.

0:11Shailia StephensIf you're new to the podcast, you're gonna find out pretty quickly that this is a friendship, uh, with a fun conversation. We, we do it egotistically for ourselves, and you just get to listen in and hopefully learn something, right, Leah?

0:26Lea WernliYes, that's true. Because we really— that's— we don't see each other that often, and that's just the meeting we both have in our calendar, and we are waiting to catch up every time. So yeah.

0:41Shailia StephensYeah, we wouldn't talk probably if we didn't have this meeting. I mean, as busy as we both are.

0:47Lea WernliNo, that's why. So we can't stop. We just have to continue.

0:55Shailia StephensWe can't stop. That's good. That's good because I don't want to stop. So Lea doesn't have a clue what this episode is going to be about. I have sort of like an ambush topic that I want to talk with her about. And I'm pretty sure that she's going to be able to say a lot about it. So let's get into it. Are you ready, Lea?

1:21Lea WernliYes, I am. But now I'm really curious. I'm like, what the F is she talking about?

1:27Shailia StephensIt's not that probably big of a thing, but so I want to give you some context. So I think I told you on a WhatsApp message not too long ago that I discovered a new platform. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it's called Bark, like a dog barks, B-A-R-K. And apparently it's been in the US market for like 10 years and now in the German-speaking market for 3. And basically it's just a super simple idea. You just can go there if you need a service and you can find a service professional who can give you that service.

2:02So like, let's say you need a gardener, you can go and say, I need this and this is what I want. And then somebody can come and say, I'm a gardener, I can do those things you wanted me to do. And then they connect you, the platform connects you up and makes an offer and all that kind of good stuff. And they also have on there like life coaching and therapy and So I was like fascinated. I signed up a couple weeks ago as a service provider and I just jumped in to see what are people dealing with?

2:33Like who are the people on the platform that are looking for coaching and psychological help? And Leah, you have to go and have a look at it. I'm gonna show you like sometime today before we leave this space. There are a lot of young people on there between the ages of 18 and 25 or 26 and 29. People under 18. Those are the majority of people that are on this platform looking for support. And there are 2 really big topics that come up again and again.

3:06And you have to imagine this platform sends you hundreds of people looking for help like every day. It's a lot. And one of the main topics is the following: people are saying that they are having enormous difficulty with aggression within themselves. They are experiencing really high-level bouts of anger, like the tiniest little thing sets them off in life. And what's apparently happening is, is that they lash out at other people, whether it's their wife, their coworkers, their children.

3:49And A thing that I'm often reading on there is also like, I can't control myself. I feel terrible when it happens. And I'm ruining my relationships. And a lot of people who are coming on board, they are there because they want to save their marriage a lot of the times, because apparently it's affecting the partnership like the most, you know.

4:17Lea WernliYeah.

4:18Shailia StephensSo I wanted to talk about that today, like what you've seen about that, because I know, Leah, you've worked with children in situations in school systems where, you know, they had some aggression issues. I know you personally have had some aggression issues, if I'm not mistaken, in your own personal life. So anyway. I don't know a lot about it. I haven't thought a lot about it, but I'm interested in hearing what you have to say. Yeah.

4:51Lea WernliI mean, actually, the things we are talking about, like the principles, and when I stumbled across them, that was the answer to both of those problems. And I had both of them. I had the anger issue and the not being able to control myself in certain situations.

5:21Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

5:22Lea WernliAnd I mean, I so get that, um, that pressure, that longing, that inner turmoil of, I just can't figure out how to change it. I couldn't. And I did all of it. I mean, it, it was gradually better with the tools, with the things, with the healing, with the energy psychology. They— I, I, I'm pretty sure that I did resolve a lot of things during the 10 years of my journey, but I, I still was not 100% sure that it wouldn't happen again. Um, just for a little bit of context, I didn't have the anger issues, um, towards others.

6:22I most of the time had it towards myself. So I really got extremely angry, and when I was a teenager or young adult, I, I, I did hit the walls, or I even crushed doors, or I, I, um, I, I had it with like things or, or, um, with myself. So, um, but this, this anger, this feeling that couldn't go anywhere, that that just did build up in myself. I, I know that, um, quite well. And what I, what I've seen, and now also with my clients, with the young clients— I, I've got clients that also had problems with, um, like police and, and drugs and, and all of that— always comes from the same place.

7:30So it's that we don't recognize where we are in ourselves, and we go further in that direction than to notice that, um, there is pressure or, or nervous feelings or sad feelings, and that we could come back to the present moment. So it's always in the In the, like the design. And when you don't get how we work, you think you have to do more, or you think you have to find it out there, or you think that something or someone is giving you that feeling. That's how I felt. I felt hopeless and ausgeliefert.

8:22Shailia StephensOh, like, I don't know the word.

8:28Lea WernliYeah. Like, like that, that I wasn't in charge.

8:32Shailia StephensYes.

8:34Lea WernliAnd then the first thing that I saw was, of course, that we are one deep down in this consciousness. So that solved somehow the you could give me something. in a way.

8:49Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

8:51Lea WernliAnd so it was like, oh, it's never out there, it's always inside. And the second thing was, and still is, um, that we always feel the principle of thought moment by moment. So And that the anger, the hopelessness, the frustration is coming from within, like on top of the situation, on top of, oh wow, that hurts, and the feeling is going through me and then it leaves me again. When I just get hold of it and when I think about it and when I want to resolve it in myself, then— then I got angrier and angrier.

9:50So my state and the state of a lot of people out there was constantly orange. You saw me teaching like the ampoule, like green, orange, the red light, the red light, green light. Yeah, yeah. And so orange in the sense of inner, um, agitated Like inner stress, like, like being, um, like there is an angespannt— what's the word in English?

10:28Shailia StephensA tension.

10:30Lea WernliLike inner tension. And from there, thinking that I have to do more, or thinking that something outside of me has to resolve it. So when I was orange, Something happened and I was immediately red because I already was in the state of tension. And to realizing that the state of tension is just this gentle love letter of my design pointing me where I am inside, and to To just see that I'm able to come back in that moment and to feel inside what would help.

11:18What do I need to calm down? What do I need to, to feel greenish again? That was a process. That was a, that was an ongoing exploration when I started out. To, to come back to see how it works and to come back to realizing that the states are changing. So this understanding over time resolved both of this because the losing control was a part of being like impulsive because I felt ashamed or was angry that I was angry again. And so all the feelings did build up, and then I couldn't cope, and then I did lash or eat or take things or buy stuff. So that was interconnected somehow.

12:18Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

12:20Lea WernliAnd to, to start to see the design and to be able to work inside of me with the snow globe, like the 3 principles as a metaphor, changed all of that.

12:34Shailia StephensHmm.

12:35Lea WernliBecause, um, I, I could start to feel when the tension started to build up. I could start to come back. I could start to see it's all within and not the other one. And all of that made a huge difference. So that's why I sneak in the principles and the snow globe in every, every, every conversation that I have with kids, with youth, with parents, with all of the people that, that cross my path, because That doorway did resolve my biggest, biggest issue that looked unresolvable.

13:29Shailia StephensHmm.

13:29Lea WernliAnd it also does for all the people that see something in it. It changes— it changed the life of the teenagers I talked about with you tremendously.

13:45Shailia StephensYeah, I love that, Leah. Well, I'm gonna ask you some questions about what you just said, but before—

13:51Lea WernliHumbling. Yeah.

13:52Shailia StephensNo, it's good. But before you— before you— I do that, would you be willing to tell people what the snow globe metaphor is and what it means? Because I think a lot of people out there have never heard of it before, you know, that could be completely new to them.

14:10Lea WernliI mean, We could do it together. It's just one, one possibility to talk about the principles. And, and maybe in the, in, in the case I had a boy just a week ago with anger issues, and, and we exactly talked about it that way. I was like, hey, I get it. And I just want to tell you what really helped me. And it maybe seems a little strange or too easy, or, um, but, but that to look in that direction changed everything for me. So he was like, yeah, let's, let's have a look at it.

14:58And it's this metaphor of, hey, look, this beautiful snow globe, and can you see I've got the moon inside as a as the, the thing that, that is in the globe. And, and this moon is visible, and that's, that's like our inner knowing, our— it's mind, it's life through us. And with kids or teens, I often say like gesunder Menschenverstand. I know a lot of people don't like that word, but when I use—

15:36Shailia StephensHealthy common sense. Yeah.

15:38Lea WernliSpiritual terms, I say common sense, that what you know is, is right and true without religion or beliefs, like this inner knowing. And he was like, oh yeah, yeah, I can see that. And then I said, look, there are these golden snowflakes, flakes, and they're beautiful. And, and these are these That's the human experience, our, our thoughts, the principle of thoughts and feelings. Like, it's always matched. We think and we feel whatever comes through us.

16:18And you feel joyful. How did you feel this morning? And he was like, yeah, annoyed because I had to go to school, and now it's okay. And all these experiences are, are there. And they're okay. That's what life— what's all about, to feel. And he was like, yeah, I see that. And I asked him, can you still see the moon and the common sense? Yeah, of course. Okay. And like this globe, that's what we do now, having consciousness, speaking about it, being aware.

16:58Like, you're calm and you feel it and you're aware of what's going on. That's one possibility. So that's how I talked to him. He was like, yeah, I'm able to see and feel. And then I said, and sometimes when you think that someone— it was like someone said something to me and he's not allowed to do that and I'm going to hit him on the nose. I said, and Then you take the— that thought very serious. Like, he said it and that's not okay, and it's respect, and I have to get back at him.

17:40And so you start like this inner snowstorm starts, and you, you start to feel angry and, and frustrated, and you, you even— you, you, you think more. And he was like, yeah, that's absolutely true. And I said, do that. I mean, take it in your hand and just shuffle it and shake it, shake it, shake it. And he did it and he shaked it. And we were like, yeah, now can you see the common sense and your inner knowing? And it was like, no.

18:19Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

18:20Lea WernliAnd That was like this little moment of, oh. And I said, yeah, and that's what's happening. You're not seeing clear anymore. You're doing things in that, in that state that you wouldn't do if you would see clear. And how, how can you see clear again with that metaphor? And he was like, yeah, I mean— I mean, I don't know. That was like, look at your hand, you're not shaking anymore. He was like, yeah, that's true. And now they're settled.

18:58Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

18:59Lea WernliOh, that was like, what, what do you see? And he says, I'm not shaking, it settles, so I have to calm down. Yeah. And, and I told him, look, I don't give advice. And I don't say you have to or don't do, but just look at it. Does that make sense to wait till you punch him in the nose?

19:31Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

19:31Lea WernliAnd he was like, yeah, that does make sense. And then I know what to do. And sometimes there is something to do, and yeah, that's exactly it. But often it's not punching into the— in some— and, and it's so simple, but it, it's so logic in a way.

20:01Shailia StephensLogical.

20:02Lea WernliLogical and practical to see, oh, Then I don't see clear, and I can put it down and stop shaking and, and calm down. However you calm down, like, through whatever you need to do to calm down, and then to look, and then to do whatever needs to be done. So one of my only things I also say with youth with aggression or people, whatever, is don't do anything in the snowstorm.

20:43Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

20:44Lea WernliAnd I've— I had people saying, whoa, if my dad would have known that, he would not be in prison now. If— yes, that's it.

20:57Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

20:59Lea WernliAnd it's— and often people walk away. Sometimes I have people just for an hour, and if they walk away with that, something— there is a possibility that, that their system remembers.

21:20Shailia StephensYeah.

21:21Lea WernliIt's time.

21:23Shailia StephensYeah.

21:26Lea WernliYeah. Oh, that was a, that was a very practical example how I explained it.

21:33Shailia StephensNo, I love that. I love it, love it, love it when you get practical. And I had, I had sort of an aha moment today when you were talking because I think I, I have an experience right now of someone who I'm working with, not Oh, there's the snow globe. I'm working with right now, not in the, in a client, coachee kind of way, but just when I'm working with on some projects. And this person is so easygoing a lot of the time and really nice, and we get along super and like loving and all kinds of things.

22:10And then one tiny little thing happens and they go off the the deep end and they're just angry and then like accusatory in not just my direction, but in other people's direction. And I was thinking about that while you were talking. And I think what I was under the misunderstanding of, because I know this from my home life, you know, my dad was highly angry and aggressive. My grandfather was highly angry and aggressive. And it would just be like, From 0 to 100 in 2 seconds, like with no warning kind of a thing.

22:50But I couldn't get my mind around how does this happen? You know, like, that's not how for me the principle of thought works. Even if you misunderstand, you know, how thought, the role of thought, you know, you've got some buffer in there. It's not like when I'm misunderstanding when I'm putting my attention on stressful thinking, it doesn't mean I'm going to throw a vacuum cleaner across the room like my grandfather did. And what I, but what I heard you say today, and that makes so much sense to me, is, well, but if you're living in orange, that's a different thing. And so I'm going to, I'm going to pick that up really quickly. And yeah. So—

23:32Lea WernliIt's visible from the outside. Orange is often not visible.

23:37Shailia StephensYes, yes. And so I want to, want to talk about that red light, red light, green light and what, what Leah means about that or that metaphor. And then so there's the snow globe and then there's the green light, red light. So the green light, red light, it basically tells us where we are on the inside, right? Green is I'm not having a lot of insecure, stressful, judgmental thinking. I'm just kind of at a A calm space, like I'm clear, I'm clean, I'm kind of, I'm not so contaminated by thought, or if I even do have a lot of thinking and I know how I work, I'm not putting my attention on it.

24:19So I'm green, right? And when I'm green and I go out and interact with others, things are nice, you know, they're quite enjoyable. And, you know, I'm loving and I bring people, I I meet people with a level of understanding. There's not going to be a lot, you know, yelling going on and things like that in green. It's just, it's a good space. And then red is the other end of the light. The red is, I'm pissed off, you know, or my head is full of a thought storm about something, someone, the situation in the world, like whatever it is that you're you're experiencing at the moment on thinking, and you've got all of your attention on it.

25:06You're believing it. It's for you true. You've been disrespected. It's unfair. Like, whatever the thing is that's in your mind. And it's, it's so obvious to people who are interacting with you if you're on Red, because you're saying snarky comments. You might be shouting. You might be making accusations. like whatever the thing is, or you're just looking angry, like red is, red is obvious. Orange is a little bit trickier. Yeah, because, and this is my interpretation of it, Lea will have hers.

25:42Lea WernliOh, it looks like Lea has—

25:43Shailia Stephensoh, there you are again, Lea. You were frozen for a second. So orange is a little bit different because orange is I am— I've got a thought storm going on, and I've got one foot in it and one foot out of it kind of a situation. It's where tension— I'm gonna use the words that you use, Leah— tension is building up. But I'm not exploded yet. I'm just— things are just looking real enough that I'm uncomfortable and agitated. Right? And while you were talking, I had such an aha moment because I realized, oh, It's not that they're going from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds.

26:27It's that they're living right now, for whatever reason, from an agitated, tense inner space. Maybe don't even realize it themselves necessarily, right?

26:41Lea WernliYeah.

26:42Shailia StephensYeah. And then when another thing comes added on top, another thought storm, another situation that triggers them, then they're off to the races. Did I understand you correctly, Leah?

26:55Lea WernliTotally. Yeah. And it's so good to know about that because in red, there often is no chance that you can come back for that moment. And that's, that can have horrendous consequences. In orange, there is a chance. And when you start to, to, to explore and to see in yourself, um, how that feels in you, there is the possibility to calm down and to, to go back to normal or to green or to, to light orange in a way.

27:40Shailia StephensYeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you say come back, what you mean is take your hands off of your stressful thinking and come back and be present in the here and now. Like, take your attention off of whatever that thing is, that, that thought storm that's making you feel tense, right? And while you were talking, I had another sort of little insight, which was I don't have anger issues. I didn't have— I didn't knock down doors or punch walls or bang my head or whatever, like, you know, you said.

28:13But I had a different level of living in orange before I came to the 3 principles. My level was having insecure thinking about myself and how I was doing in the world and believing the negative thoughts about myself and my situation, right? And what would happen to me when an additional something got added on top is I wouldn't get angry. I didn't explode. I would get exhausted and fall apart and crash.

28:40Lea WernliYeah.

28:41Shailia StephensI would have to sleep for 3 days straight to regain my bearings. The release of the tension was through exhaustion because my system literally just shut me off and cut me out of the game, right? And while you were talking, I realized, oh, it's not about How it manifests. Like people who, people who say, I have aggression problems, I'm angry so quickly, I go off the rails. Well, they're experiencing the same system at play as someone who is going into exhaustion and burnout. It's just a different manifestation of the same inner process. It's a different way of dealing with the tension and when it gets Over the edge.

29:29Lea WernliNo, totally, totally. Yeah, that's so— that's again, that's this totally new paradigm that we don't look at the manifestation but how it works. And at the moment, often people look at the manifestation and, and how to change that outcome, but it's not there. I mean, there is probably helpful things around, but—

29:59Shailia StephensYeah.

29:59Lea WernliIt's the same. It doesn't matter. And a lot of people mask their orange states because in orange, we are still able to be nice and love and, or do, or do too much like you did. And we are still functioning somehow. But that's still orange.

30:28Shailia StephensYeah.

30:30Lea WernliThe more we start to really feel and see where we are inside, the easier it gets to, as you said, come back and to let it go. And but it's a lot faster than then, then we realize we don't like to be orange. And often we, we would love to be green, but heck, we, we feel this tension. And to admit that is also a step or a process or something to start to explore. So—

31:11Shailia StephensYeah.

31:12Lea WernliLike teachers or fathers or mothers, yeah, I'm nice, but actually I'm angry inside, or I get angry and Then.

31:21Shailia StephensYeah. Yeah. Yeah.

31:24Lea WernliSo it, it is uncovering. It is, uh, uh, having a better look at what's going on in myself.

31:35Shailia StephensYeah.

31:36Lea WernliYeah.

31:37Shailia StephensIt's that proverbial understanding how you operate as a human being, like knowing the operations manual. And I, and I love that, Leah, because that's That's, that's going to the core of the matter. You know, it's not like going to anger management. It's not squeezing a stress ball. It's not going to sports so you can get out the adrenaline. It's like really understanding deep down what's going on so you can raise your, raise your awareness. And from there, things start to get softer and easier and more green.

32:10Lea WernliYeah. And, and it works. And that's just it. Every single day blows my mind.

32:20Shailia StephensYeah, yeah.

32:22Lea WernliAnd it did work for myself, and it worked with, with teenagers or people that really lost hope, and everyone around them did lose hope. And, and now they're navigating like Like easily, like with all, with the, with what life presents. Of course it's not all like pink and fluffy, but like, um, they, if they know how to navigate, that's, that's a huge difference.

32:59Shailia StephensYeah, yeah. No, I love that, Leah. And with your permission, I'm gonna post this video on my Bark profile, just so if, you know, any of those young people stumble across it, they can watch it, because I think it will be so valuable for them. And I appreciate being able to ask you this question today and what you've seen about it. Like, I really, I really saw some things new that I hadn't even considered. So thank you for sharing that.

33:25Lea WernliYou're welcome. And that's, I mean, I, that's why I do it. That's one part of, of the why.

33:38Shailia StephensYeah, so cool. Thanks, Leah. So guys, whoever's listening, thanks for listening in today. We hope you got something insightful out of that for yourself. And if you like this podcast, follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. If you think a friend or family member or a colleague can profit from this conversation, someone maybe you have seen, you know, having trouble with aggression and anger, um, give it to them. Like, send them the link to the episode with, with something kind, um, saying, hey, I heard this, I thought you might be interested in it.

34:14And we love when, um, this will just be spread. Share the love. That's what we want to say. So see you next time on Time for You. Until then, bye-bye.

34:25Lea WernliThank you.