48 – Why Saying Less Can Save Your Relationship

0:01Lea WernliHello and welcome back to Time for You. We are still here and it's still Friday as it was in the last episode. That's a bit strange, but we want to be really honest and open how we do it and what we do. And actually, we meet and then we have a couple of hours together and we talk, um, with you, with each other, for each other, and for you. So welcome. Enjoy. We don't know where you are or what you do, but we just want to, um, have, have a good time. So let's start there. Shelia has a very cool, very simple, very straightforward topic, and we—

0:54Shailia StephensI'm really curious If you're listening to this, you're probably thinking we're on drugs, but I— we're— it's just Friday and we're, uh, slap happy. We're just tired from the week. Yeah, ready for the weekend, probably. And Leah's making the funniest faces. But I'm showing you, by the way, this is Leah.

1:14Lea WernliOh yeah, I forgot that.

1:16Shailia StephensShe forgot to introduce us. Yeah, so Leah, so what I wanted to talk about today, um, it's a relationship topic, and I'm gonna— I'm gonna frame it in the relationship between partners. So let's say a husband and a wife or a wife and a wife, a husband and a husband, whatever, like people who are together, two together. And it, it comes from, uh, a client that I've been working with for the last about 4 weeks. Um, and he's a young man. Uh, I say young man, he's 35. At 50, that seems like kind of young. We're like, oh, he's just a young chicken, a young spring chicken.

1:58Lea WernliYeah, and a man, a man, a man.

2:01Shailia StephensYeah, young guy. And, uh, he's got a lovely family, like a beautiful wife. I see their picture, their wedding pictures on his, uh, WhatsApp pic, um, you know, the, the profile pic. And he's got 2 little kids and, uh, they have, they have wonderful family and, um, they have always had a really good relationship. Um, you know, that kind that you see in the movies, you know, like it's just harmonious and in love and like to spend time together, laugh together, um, decide things, um, together, like as a team. And, um, when things get hard, you know, they work together well. So actually, um, the picture kind of of a dream relationship.

2:49Lea WernliMm.

2:50Shailia StephensAnd then from one day to the next, for my client, like, just all of a sudden, up came some really insecure thinking out of nowhere.

3:05Lea WernliHmm.

3:06Shailia StephensOut of nowhere. There's nothing really happened necessarily on the outside. I mean, a few little things, but it, you know, just kind of like how life plays out. You've got 2 small kids at home. The wife is still breastfeeding the baby, you know, not getting great sleep and maybe not having as much connection and intimacy because they're just, they're tired. You know, there's not a lot of time, you know. And, but no big deal, no big deal really.

3:33Lea WernliMm-hmm.

3:34Shailia StephensBut this insecurity was just building up and building up and building up and got so big inside the mind of this wonderful man. that he really, really got, um, what we would say in the Three Principles, like mentally insane a little bit.

3:56Lea WernliMm-hmm.

3:57Shailia StephensUm, and physically unwell. Like, um, the worries he was having about the relationship and that they might break up or that the family might fall apart or, you know, just whatever his brain was telling him were making him have Very bad stomachaches and all kinds of physical problems, and not being able to sleep at night, those kinds of things. And, you know, what we innocently do when we think that our problems, the thing we're insecure about, when we think it's coming from the outside, we try and go fix it on the outside.

4:40Lea WernliMm-hmm.

4:41Shailia StephensRight? So basically, he didn't know that it was happening on the inside. It wasn't clear or transparent to him at all. So he started trying to change things on the outside. First was kind of around finding more time for the family, less working at work, coming home on time, less, less pursuing hobbies with friends or whatever. And they have some projects going on at home, less doing those, like really trying to find dedicated time to sit down with the kids, to sit down with the wife, like be there for the family, which sounds like a really kind of positive thing, like something you'd want your husband to do.

5:28Um, but— That crazy AI is doing symbols again. Thumbs up. Um, But actually, what started to happen is that he was almost suffocating the family in a way, being there, being there too much and on top of them. And the wife was like, hey, what's up? You know, like, give me some space, kind of a thing.

5:57Lea WernliMm-hmm.

5:58Shailia StephensBut it was this idea in his mind that if here something could be in danger and falling apart. I need to secure it. I need to do something. But he was moving from that place of insecurity into a place of action, which, which never goes well, right?

6:15Lea WernliNo, never.

6:17Shailia StephensEven if it looks like exactly the right thing you should do, what, what you would read in a textbook, you know, how to be closer to your family. And then the second thing was, because he thought something was wrong with their relationship, he was, you know, always going to the wife and saying, tell me your feelings. I feel like something's off here. And, you know, what do you need? Like, whatever it is, I'll give it to you. And she was kind of like, I'm good.

6:53I don't have any problems. I don't have any feelings that I need to express. You know, when I do have something, as you know, From all of our years together, I let you know. She's like, no, I'm cool. Nothing's in danger. There's nothing happening, kind of a thing. And it would satisfy him for a little bit. And it would make his inner sort of storm of thinking and feeling and the knot in his stomach, it would bring it down a notch for just a moment.

7:25But it never held. It didn't matter what the response was, how loving, how assuring she was being. It didn't matter. It would just take it down a notch and then it would just, boom, flame back up again. And it got to the point where he was constantly Every time he would, he would feel inside of himself this building up of, we need to talk, we need to solve this problem of us drifting apart. And every time he would go and try to have that conversation, he would be met with Ablehnung. What is the word in English? Rejection.

8:14Lea WernliRejection, yeah.

8:15Shailia StephensRejection or irritation. It's like, oh, this conversation again. I already told you there's nothing, you know, going on. It's— I'm fine. I'm happy. I love you. You know, like, and then it, it would just became then a self-perpetuating monster. Because where there was no problem, there became a problem.

8:40Lea WernliYeah.

8:40Shailia StephensRight? And because, because he was innocently seeing it outside of himself, he was trying to fix it through this conversation as well.

8:50Lea WernliYeah.

8:50Shailia StephensAnd so we'd had some like back and forth via WhatsApp, and, um, it was eye-opening to him when I— when we talked about this. It was just an audio message, and so I thought it'd be interesting to share with other people that maybe are in a relationship and thinking that the salvation of their problem is having a conversation with their partner.

9:13Lea WernliRight?

9:14Shailia StephensAnd wondering why it's not working.

9:15Lea WernliRight.

9:17Shailia StephensAnd what I said to him is something to the effect of, when that urgent feeling to have that next conversation with your wife comes up, that's not telling you to actually go and have that conversation. It's telling you to shut your mouth and feel the feeling and let it flow through you.

9:40Lea WernliYes.

9:40Shailia StephensIt's, it's like the opposite of what you think it's telling you to do.

9:44Lea WernliYeah.

9:44Shailia StephensIt's putting on the brakes instead of putting on the gas.

9:48Lea WernliYeah.

9:48Shailia StephensIt's like you've got this buildup pressure inside of you, and that conversation you're trying to have is trying to release that pressure by putting the pressure on someone else, right? Like trying to get something from them, some sort of information that will make you feel better. And, and they're feeling totally under pressure to give you something they don't have to give you.

10:13Lea WernliYeah.

10:14Shailia StephensYeah. And so you have to realize that it is only your insecure thinking making a really big compelling story that there's some conversation that needs to be had so that things can be okay again, you know? And he was like, he was astonished. He was like, what? I'm not supposed to talk with my wife? He's like, no, a good marriage is based on communication. And we say when we have something on our mind, and we try to figure things out together, right? And I was like, okay, I get that. And sometimes it does. Sometimes there are things to say.

10:57Lea WernliYeah.

10:57Shailia StephensYeah, sometimes we need to do that. And I'm just like, just try it. Just try it out. Like, shut up. Shut your mouth, you know, in the nicest possible way. And he's like, okay, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try. And he did it. He did it for a couple of days, you know, and it took the pressure off of his wife. It took— and suddenly she was just a little bit closer to him than the day and then the days before, right?

11:27Lea WernliMm-hmm.

11:28Shailia StephensAnd The longer he kept quiet, the closer that they got. But of course the inner raring brain isn't going to stop, you know? So it came back a couple of days later, like after he started sleeping again and his stomach pain started going away and all that. And it was like, nope, there really is a problem.

11:51Lea WernliI know.

11:53Shailia StephensOh my gosh. I felt so bad.

11:57Lea WernliYeah.

11:57Shailia StephensAnd it was so compelling, so real looking. And he, and I told him instead of texting her or talking to her, I'm like, text me. And he's like, it's back. And I feel this urgent feeling to say something again. And I'm like, no, shut up.

12:18Lea WernliShut up.

12:19Shailia StephensNo, don't do it. Shut up. And then he couldn't not do it. And he had the conversation. What happened? Rejection, irritation. distance, right? And he was like, ah, you're right. And he's like to me, but no, Shaleia, maybe something really is in there that we need to talk about. You know how that is. It's so convincing, you know?

12:41Lea WernliTotally.

12:42Shailia StephensSo I just wanted to put that out there as a topic, Leah, like sometimes how it's better to shut up And how really the best communication comes when we are ourselves in a place of peace and insecurity and not in insecurities. That was a long forebough. Yeah.

13:07Lea WernliYou said it all. Actually, that was one of my first insights, and it probably not saved my marriage. I had a wonderful marriage before, but it made my marriage 10 times, 20 times, 100 times better because I started to shut the fuck up. I was that guy. I needed to talk it out, and I had to go deep and always and till the end and not letting it go till my husband said something too. And I, I, I was Exactly like that guy. So I get it. I know the feeling of urgency, of a pressure, of it's now and we have to, and it's important, and conflicts are, are important, and to talk it out is important.

14:08And with that paradigm shift of seeing where I am, I inside And it's a love letter, and it's the stormy thinking that gets me there and not the relationship. And it's true for every relationship.

14:31Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

14:32Lea WernliProbably even for everything in life. Like, shut up, don't do it, don't do anything. When you're in this low mood, stormy thinking, needy pressure, now it has to be moment. And that changes, um, everything. That could change the way you interact with your kids or at work or with your boss or the loved ones. And It's really interesting that often we see it in one relationship. Often we don't, um, send the message to our boss in the middle of the night in turmoil.

15:25Shailia StephensTrue.

15:26Lea WernliWe sleep, and then in the morning, if there is something left, then There is a possibility to say it. But we don't see it with the kids, because they have to respect me, and now they're really respectless, and teenage behavior, and I can't— what will happen if I don't address that? And I have— whatever is yours.

15:59Shailia StephensHmm.

16:00Lea WernliThere we don't see it, but it's exactly the same. It's the pressure, the storm, the need for speaking up right now, solving it right now, saying another argument right now. And that these are all signs that it's the opposite. These are all the signs that it's the shut-up time. And to sit on your hands and to feel whatever needs to be felt and wait till it's over, till you're quieter. And it's like with the mail for your boss in the morning, the next day.

16:48Yes, maybe there is something. Maybe it is a conversation of, hey, I need a hug from time to time, or— Or intimacy or whatever it is with your spouse or friend or relationship, or it is something with your kid like, hey, we really need to change and maybe we need to have one dinner a week that we all have together, whatever it may be. But it's— Most of the cases, very, very, very rarely. It's in that moment it can happen, but it's really— then you're very clear inside of yourself, you're calm, and you know now, no, or whatever.

17:39Shailia StephensYeah.

17:39Lea WernliDirection, stopping, even being loud, what that could be, but it's rare. It— then it's also from a state of calmness and clarity. But in 99%, I would say— I'm, I'm bold here— of the cases, it's the sign to back off. If, if there is, uh, Anspannung, um, uh, there's tension. If there is tension, actually it's tension. You can— tension is enough. Even when you're not that angry or not that sad or not that stressed, but there you're tense or Righteousness, righteous, or then it's back off. And you will see every relationship transform in front of your eyes. I— that's my— actually, that's the only thing I did the last 7 or 8 years. That's what I do.

18:45Shailia StephensMm-hmm.

18:46Lea WernliThat's it. That's where I changed inside of myself and Hell, bloody hell. Sometimes it was so hard, and I was so conditioned, and I so wanted to go there, and I, I, I really had all these urges and feelings and impulses to say it, to, to nail it, to, to, to bring the arguments, and I didn't. And I tried every day, every day, every day, and it transformed. all of my relationships that I have in my life. There are very few that are not in my life anymore, but the ones that are in my life transformed.

19:29Shailia StephensYeah.

19:32Lea WernliSo I get it deeply.

19:34Shailia StephensYeah, I hear it. That's powerful, Lia. And I'm glad you said that because me too, right? I still sometimes fall back into that. I fall asleep to it.

19:49Lea WernliYeah, me too.

19:51Shailia StephensI do have an urgency, and I do believe it's real, and I do text someone or, or say the thing that doesn't need to be said. I— that's why it's so easy for me to recognize it in someone else, because I have been myself in that trap. so many times before, even after I woke up to this understanding. I do fall back asleep on it. And I think it is so important to know. It is so important to know for everyone, for everyone. I think the whole world would benefit.

20:31Lea WernliYes.

20:32Shailia StephensWould benefit. I think there'd be a lot more peace out there if we just had that. And, and how crazy is it? How simple is that?

20:41Lea WernliI know, you know, I know. And what you just said, that's really important too. It's this, hey, and we are human, of course we fall back, but you can train, you can try again, you can become more aware and, and more conscious of it. And, and it feels so—

21:05Shailia Stephensit—

21:05Lea Wernlibecause it really transforms this relationship There is so much value in it. And yes, for me too, if this part everybody would know, the world would be another place right now.

21:23Shailia StephensYeah.

21:23Lea WernliA different place.

21:24Shailia StephensYeah, 100%. 100%. So yeah, I mean, that's today's topic. We're just telling you to shut up. What's the big deal? In the most loving and well-meaning way. Yeah, because, yeah, it's important.

21:49Lea WernliIt is. And guys, we always tell it ourselves as well, of course.

21:55Shailia StephensYeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. So, Lea, what do you think? You want to take us out of the podcast? She always loves this part.

22:04Lea WernliYeah. So thank you for Um, that spending time with us. So that's an honor. It is, because, um, I know time is precious. So we hope that you could hear something or feel something or take out one, one little, little tiny thing that could be helpful. And if it was helpful for you, it would be amazing if you could share it with a friend or a loved one or a family member. And just let's try it out together, like next week, and to shut up when we want to talk and we feel tension, and just sit it out, and watching how a life or relationship transforms.

22:56So, um, yeah, experimenting. together. So, um, let us know how it, how it worked for you, and we hope to see you, hear you again next— oh no, in 2 weeks. And yes, um, thanks and bye.

23:17Shailia StephensBye-bye, everybody.